Daryl Cagle: Hi, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is a little extra Caglecast that we're
going to put together with our Israeli cartoonist friends, discussing Steve Bell,
the cartoonist for The Guardian in London.
And Steve Bell was fired from his job for drawing this cartoon of Netanyahu, and we
should explain the cartoon a little bit.
Netanyahu is drawing with a knife, um, Gaza on his belly, He's saying
residents of Gaza get out now, but he is in the position of a very famous
cartoon by David Levine depicting Lyndon Johnson showing Vietnam on his belly.
And this was drawn after a very famous photo of Lyndon Johnson after An
operation showing his scar on his belly.
And so David Levine, the cartoonist for the New York Times book
review at the time, drew, Lyndon Johnson's scar as, Vietnam.
And that is the metaphor from Steve Bell that, Gaza is Israel's Vietnam.
Now, Steve Bell was fired for this cartoon, because his...
Editors at The Guardian said that this was an anti Semitic cartoon.
And I argue it's not, and I would like to hear from the top Israeli
editorial cartoonists what you think about Steve Bell getting
fired for drawing this cartoon that his editor said was anti Semitic.
Steve Bell had an extra six months left on his contract with The
Guardian, and The Guardian said that...
They will honor the contract by paying him for that six months, but they won't print
any more of his cartoons during that time.
I think that's pretty outrageous.
So, uh, gentlemen.
Discuss
Uri Fink: what I can say as the chairman of the Israeli Cartoonist
Society Association or whatever and a big Steve Bell fan that I sent out
a letter, a letter from the Israeli Cartoonist Society that says that
we opposed the firing of Steve Bell.
And there's nothing anti Semitic about this cartoon.
There's nothing, I mean, I think the anti Semitism here is just an excuse.
There's nothing anti Semitic about this cartoon.
There's, I don't, we don't find any, anything.
I mean, the, an Israeli cartoonist could have done this cartoon
as, as much as anybody else.
And, uh, really, it's totally ridiculous.
So the anti-Semite anti-Semitism, uh, issue here is completely, uh,
I mean, it's not, it's nothing.
It's, it's, it doesn't exist.
I think it's just an excuse that they made up.
I can't believe anybody was thinking about this cartoon,
that it's really antisemitic.
Uh mm-Hmm.
, you know, it's a political cartoon and, uh, you know, I sent it to, I, I.
Really, I think that's one of the first documents I sent.
I sent it to everybody in the world, including you, Daryl.
that, that's, that's not the issue here.
And the truth is that we have a lot of, uh, I think...
A lot of newspapers are using this, because the newspaper business is in
such dire straits that it's not, it's not working, it's not making any profit.
They're just making up excuses to fire cartoonists.
Because they, it's too difficult for them to handle, they
don't understand the medium.
They, for them it's too difficult, they can, they can edit, uh, articles
and stuff like that, but cartoons is too difficult, it's too dangerous.
So they just, because they don't make that much money anymore,
they say, let's just leave it.
And I think it's very dangerous because...
The medium of cartoon is very, very important.
I think for free speech, it's essential and it's a disgrace for, for the Guardian.
I think it's really a disgrace.
Daryl Cagle: I should mention that Steve Bell is a very well respected
cartoonist in our profession.
We are all, all big Steve Bell fans.
And, so, among his colleagues, this hits us hard.
And of course, you don't need a reason to fire a cartoonist.
Cartoonists are getting laid off left and right just because
newspapers are shrinking.
if they wanted to lay him off, they could just lay him off.
They don't need all of this anti Semitism as a reason.
Michel Kichka: I think that was a coward accusation, an easy
accusation, and there's no connection with the reality of the cartoon.
And, uh, if you look at it, if you look at it objectively, what it says in
one sentence is that Israel, which is represented by Netanyahu, okay, is going
to make a surgery on Gaza with boxing gloves, and it's going to be not nice.
This is all what it said.
No
Uri Fink: antisemitism, no
Michel Kichka: Jewish symbol, and this accusation is an accusation of
weak people who are afraid to take responsibility on the cartoons that
they published in their own newspaper.
And this is what I think we have all condemned in Israel.
I mean, our association, led by Uri Fink.
He wrote a wonderful letter, and we all stand behind him.
Daryl Cagle: I should probably mention, since we hadn't discussed
the, boxing gloves much, and just discussed the allegory to the David
Levine cartoon, the boxing gloves imply, pugilism, and fighting.
And they also imply clumsiness, which I think are both, uh,
apt things to, imply here.
And of course, that's an addition to, uh, Uh, what he was doing from
the David Levine cartoon, and note, of course, that he wrote after David
Levine on, Netanyahu's belly there, so that there's no misunderstanding
about what's going on, and that this is, uh, an allegory to Vietnam.
this was a very, Well known photograph that, uh, certainly
all editorial cartoonists know.
And, for guys our age, we all, all remember.
and of course it's guys our age that are the readers of newspapers now.
So, it's an effective metaphor for its audience.
Michel Kichka: Mm-Hmm.
. I think that firing a professional cartoonist.
Who has been working for decades with a newspaper, a leading
cartoonist, because of one of his cartoons is, this is a scandal.
This is simply a scandal.
And it reminds me what happened in New York Times with the cartoon of Antonio.
Yes.
And I think this is a lack of courage of the editors.
If you publish a cartoon.
And you know that this cartoon will be published in your newspaper,
even if you get protests on social nets and everywhere else.
You need to support your cartoonists.
You need to take responsibility for the cartoons that you are publishing.
And if this contract does not exist anymore, between a cartoonist
and an editor of a newspaper, the situation is very bad.
Daryl Cagle: Moshik, do you have any, any words on this?
Moshik Gulst: Yes, like, uh, Except the, the, the cartooning, uh, issue, uh, I
think that, uh, for me and I guess for all of us, uh, for Uri and Michel, uh,
for me as a Jew, it's even more outrageous because when you are saying that something
is anti Semitic and it's not, then you're hurting the fight against anti Semitism
because, now, it just hurts the, the, the fight against anti Semitism, you
see, because now, the definition for anti Semitism is so wide that it doesn't exist
according to, the Guardian, of course.
And it's double outrageous as a cartoonist and as a Jewish person that they use.
, the, the anti antisemitism, issue as a, as a thing to fire.
Mm-Hmm.
Daryl Cagle: So I thought it was, uh, a good idea, given the accusation in firing
Steve Bell and, how important this is to our profession and how much we all
respect Steve Bell to have the three top Israeli editorial cartoonists come in
here and share their thoughts on this.
And thank you, gentlemen.
Thank you.