Hi everybody, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast where
we're all about political cartoons.
Well, last week we did an episode about Vladimir Putin, Vladimir Putin, part two.
And, we had a lot of fun doing it, and we went long and we got actually
a whole extra episode out of it, and that's what we're gonna do today.
Poor Taylor Jones.
Got a little shorted on that episode.
Go.
I'm gonna start with a bunch of Taylor's cartoons, and a
few of the new Wagner versus.
Putin cartoons that came in after that because, we did that just
before the Wagner Rebellion so I thought I would throw in some
of the newest Wagner cartoons.
So we get caught up on Putin.
And then, the rest of the episode we're gonna hear, uh, more freewheeling
conversation, which of course goes to artificial intelligence
because, uh you know, that's what's on all the cartoonist minds.
Taylor Jones is great fun and, uh, this is Taylor's Yevgeny Prigozhin
cartoon where he looks like a raccoon.
And I think this is just hilarious.
this is one that I did, you know, the, Russian flag that has this two-headed
eagle on it, I think is pretty crazy.
I like this two-headed eagle.
And of course now that there, is all of this obvious infighting, that two-headed
eagle makes a whole lot more sense.
This is one that I did with Prigozhan and, Belarus President.
Alexander Lukashenko and Lukashenko says, Hey Prigozhin, you and your
Wagner army are welcome to stay in Belarus so long as you keep wearing
that t-shirt, that target t-shirt.
Here's one by Patrick Chappatte, our Swiss cartoonist with no words.
And, Putin, who looks a little bit like Johnny Carson here is, holding.
His puppet strings over Prigozhin who is not cooperating well and,
and Putin's getting all tangled up.
And here's one from John Darkow that really did very well with
the editors, Putin in his Z tank with his, uh, backfiring, tank,
having some trouble on him.
And, uh, he says it's getting so you can't commit an act of aggression
and not have it the backfire.
This is one from our Ukrainian cartoonist Vladimir Kazanevsky with, balloons over
the Kremlin, uh, Prigozhin and Putin about to poke each other with needles.
Heres, Rick McKee from Florida drawing, a Putin, who's not
looking like much of a strong man
and another backfiring tank by Rivers.
Here is our cartoonist from Slovakia, Martin Sutovec, and Prigozhin and
Putin fighting it out in the blood.
we're gonna Go to the extra conversation that happened on our last episode.
And we, just get to be more freewheeling and chat.
Maybe that's what this podcast should be going forward.
Just a lot more freewheeling chat.
So I'm gonna think about that, see if I can do a little less
structure and have a little more fun.
Uh, wow, they're all fun.
So, hey, thank you for coming.
And here's our episode that, ran long and was actually better than the part that.
Didn't run long, so, uh, enjoy and I will see you next week.
We'll probably do the Supreme Court because that's so, disturbing.
We'll see what's disturbing next week.
Thanks.
Daryl Cagle: So Taylor here you've got, Putin, much like, president
Bush reading the book to the, kids, as 9/11 happened here.
You've got Putin with Goodnight Freedom, good Night Ukraine, reading
a book to the school kids in Russia.
That's a, that's a lovely drawing and a lovely metaphor.
Taylor Jones: Well, thank you.
This was for, the Hoover Institution, they are probably, I mean, um, best
known for their Hoover archive, where they're very, very, it's a, it's, it's,
I guess, the world's biggest archive outside of Russia for, uh, all kinds of
Soviet, uh, memorabilia, uh, writings.
Uh, things from dissidents, all that stuff.
They've got all that at the Hoover Institution.
And, and, and of course part one of the Hoover Fellows, I guess he's, I'm not sure
if he's still alive or very, very old.
Uh, one of, uh, a, a famous American historian of Russia.
Uh, and this was foreign, an article either by him or about him.
Um, and, uh, the thing is that, um, if, if you go back to that cartoon for
a second, Daryl, um, uh, I, you know, that could be taken as almost, it's
certainly not meant to be pro Putin.
But of course what he's doing is, part of the story was saying how, uh, uh,
Russia is trying to, um, is, is very strongly indoctrinated, indoctrinating
its young children about the, the, the glorious adventure that is the, uh,
the, um, well, they don't call it a war, what do they call it in Ukraine?
Um, that the Russians, uh, uh, and, and, um, But you know, somebody could
look at this and take it the wrong way, I would think, you know, and
think that, um, this is almost in, in favor of Russia and, uh, obviously
Jos Collignon: No, no, no.
I can't.
Taylor Jones: Okay, good.
Adam Zyglis: Tell, tell Taylor, was this a reference to Goodnight Gorilla as a
parent of young children, that's the only thing I, that's, I thought Goodnight.
Move right away.
That classic book.
Yeah.
Good.
It was like Good Night, good Night, moon.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a
great book.
Jos Collignon: Thank you.
Well, I mean, but Good Night Ukraine with an explosion under it that makes you
not really very enthusiastic for Putin.
Daryl Cagle: So here's a wonderful cartoon with a Teenagery sullen Putin
in his room with, the keep out signs on the door and this is, this just has how
so much character and it's so much fun.
You've got Boris and Natasha from Bullwinkle on a poster on the wall.
It's hilarious.
Taylor Jones: Well, you know, uh, uh, of course that's the, that's
back in Putin's more svelte days.
Uh, so he had, he was kind of raw bone then and, uh, uh, but thank you.
Um, uh, you know, he's, he, he has, Putin has lent himself in so many ways in terms
of caricature not to, to, to all of us.
And, uh, you know, it's, um, uh, he's always fun to draw.
Uh, I think he's gotten harder to caricature because he's, um,
because he's kind of puffed out.
Uh, it's a different look.
And, and there are some cartoonists that, that really handle that really well.
Such as Ed Wexler, he's really got the, uh, the puffy Putin down, uh, flat.
Yeah.
Perfectly
Daryl Cagle: That's a wonderful cartoon.
I enjoyed that.
I like the ones that have so much character.
And here you're drawing that crazy church guy and the Pussy
Riot, people being crucified.
And, uh, you know, any crucifixion, this cartoon's not gonna get printed,
but, uh, it's wonderful cartoon.
Taylor Jones: This is for, this is for the port, the newspaper in Puerto
Rico, and down there, you had, what I had to be careful of was things that
might seem critical of the Catholic Church, but otherwise, you know, whether
it's fundamentalists, Protestants or Russian Orthodox, they were quite, uh,
and frankly, you could be, um, well you could, you could be a little, um,
you could be a little edgier regarding Israel that, uh, in, in Nuevo di as well.
Yes, this is got religion and blood, Daryl, so I guess no, no go.
And crucifix.
Daryl Cagle: Oh, you've got blood in there too.
Oh, no.
Double whammy here.
Taylor Jones: I, I mean, uh, by the way, that was done, that was done in the first
round of sanctions against, uh, Putin regarding Ukraine back in, what, 2014.
But it turns out what all, all the problems, you know, it still works
today because, Despite all the problems Russia's having and how they're doing
so poorly in the war, apparently, from what I've read, the sanctions aren't
having much of a dent, and in fact, there was a story the New York Times today
where both Boeing and Airbus in Europe, Europe despite sanctions, are supplying
all kinds of parts and what have you to their commercial airline industry.
Sanctions generally don't seem to work for the mo no matter who
you, uh, you know, they, they haven't brought Iran to its heels.
It, it, they, it seems like a, in some ways a terrible waste of time.
It's more done for, it makes it look like we're doing something
when, uh, uh, perhaps we could be doing something more effectively.
Daryl Cagle: I think giving the sanctions enough teeth for them to
be effective is just so difficult and unpleasant that yeah, they don't do that
Taylor Jones: right to make 'em really work.
Then they hurt us as well.
Daryl Cagle: Here's another lovely cartoon from you, Taylor.
You've got, uh, Putin the Snake and he's, uh, devouring and swallowing
Ukraine, and he thinks takes a while, but I always finish my supper.
Taylor Jones: Well, I've had, I've had, uh, I've, I've portrayed Putin as I
think, eight or nine different animals and he just lends himself to that.
Uh, I know that, I forget whether it was, I think it was Yoju who
had, uh, uh, you had um, uh, uh, Putin as the wolf in a China shop
and he just sort of lends himself to, uh, to that kind of exaggeration
Daryl Cagle: He does Wonderful car.
Yeah, he is beautiful.
Yeah, really.
Here's another wonderful one.
You've got, uh, leopard Putin, and he's coming up on all of the, the critters.
What, what, what are those critters?
Taylor Jones: Well, you got gnus wildebeasts or gnus.
Daryl Cagle: Those are wildebeest and gnus.
Same thing thing, labeled thing.
The Baltics Donetsk Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova.
And the storybook says the leopard closely evaluates the herd of gnus, seeking to
identify the weakest animal, one with an injury or perhaps a young calf.
The leopard then tries to separate this gnu from the rest of the herd
so it can go in for a quick kill.
That's a lovely cartoon.
Taylor Jones: Well, thank, yeah, I've, uh, um, uh, I watch a lot of nature programs.
Joep Bertrams: I can see that the way you do the leopard with it's
shiny on, on his back and well, appreciate that.
Taylor Jones: It was fun.
It was fun to do.
Daryl Cagle: Yeah.
Oh, it's great fun.
This cartoon.
Taylor Jones: Uh, but, um, uh, I, I, I've, you know, I've, this is a third podcast.
I've been, Darryl's been nice enough to invite me in and, uh, uh, this was
a, I think a, an especially fun one.
I think I
Jos Collignon: informed, he asked me before, but, but I didn't, dare, dare
so now he asked me for the second time.
I said, let's give it a try.
Daryl Cagle: Very good.
Uh, there are
Jos Collignon: less enough to keep me going.
Daryl Cagle: There are less, less topics I can use the international guys for.
Uh, cuz you don't draw as many cartoons about the other topics we've been doing.
But, um, I would like to get you guys both on more and, uh, we'll
do more maybe, we'll, maybe we will do those Middle East ones.
Jos Collignon: I'll try to hear my, okay.
I try to hear more from the, the, the circumstances you American cartoonists
working in compared to what I am used in Europe, but it didn't get off
the ground and, and, and maybe it's, it's something to talk about later.
I mean, those were great things to talk about when we were in
France with everybody and, uh, on the train and, and being there.
And we had, we had really nice discussions about it.
Taylor Jones: Well, I, I can't remember whether it was Jos or you,
uh, mentioning that you talked about meeting with, uh, I guess it was
you Jos talking about, uh, yeah.
Uh, dinner with your, uh, editors and the breakfast cartoonists.
But were these all, were these all cartoonists for one paper or
are these bunch of cartoons Yeah.
Jos Collignon: Yeah.
Every paper in Holland has one or two or Wow.
Sometimes three cartoonists.
And that's, that's, they take pride in having these guys.
That's wonderful.
And they also take pride in letting these guys draw what they want to draw,
because that makes the voice personal.
Yeah.
And as you read columns, you like a columnist who has his personal voice and
his personal, uh, uh, uh, personal well, things to say and, and, uh, and that's
what they it is my experience, you know, I mean, uh, you has different experiences,
but I work for this paper for 40 years now, and, uh, they have a tradition.
My predecessor worked for 50 years at this paper, and sometimes we really
have discussions with the chief editor and, well, not really, but,
but sometimes it looks like a fight.
And then I know he can, he can check me whenever he wants to, but,
Usually it goes in the open and, also in the paper is written about it.
Mm-hmm.
So I get the support of many readers and they write letters and, and
those letters are published mm-hmm.
Also in the paper.
So it's more like a big community.
And that's is also the strength of the paper.
Well, you know, and, uh,
I think also
Joep Bertrams: in Europe, cartoonists are much more appreciated, uh,
and, and much more honored as well than in, in the United States.
Taylor Jones: That's true.
You know, when I, I think, think so during, during the years, I, I, I did,
I was never an employee of the newspaper in Puerto Rico, but I, I, uh, uh, did
work for them on a freelance basis a lot, uh, for 30 years, including the
time for about 10 years where I was doing three cartoons a week for them.
But they already, they, they, all, that time, they already had a cartoonist
and they would use other cartoons, uh, uh, just other cartoonist work as well.
Now, I don't mean syndicated stuff, just who they, someone
would come in, uh, oh, yeah.
We use this cartoon, I think in Latin America too.
of course, Latin American newspapers are having the same problems
that American newspapers are.
And in fact, I was canned for that reason.
because they just didn't have the funding anymore.
But, um, um, mm-hmm.
They, and, and you know, the thing is something that isn't done in
the us uh, for the most part was that they, they have, they would've
cartoons throughout the newspaper.
They would, you know, the, uh, uh, cartoons and
caricatures, not just confined.
And of course, often on the on the front page.
Now, I guess in New York, the, um, New York Observer who did that, but that's
just not, that's not been an American thing since, since, oh my goodness.
You would, you would know the car, the cartoonist long gone
from the Des Moines Register.
Uh, whose cartoons appeared on the fir on the front page, or, or did his successor?
Daryl?
Um, I can't, I can't.
Brian.
Brian Duffy.
Duffy is, this is still appearing on the front page cuz that,
that was the tradition in the Des Moines Register in Iowa.
But, um, uh, that's something that, you know, generally editorial cartoons
have been confined to the editorial page and then syndicated work Yeah.
To the op-ed page.
But in Latin America, there's a lot more.
There's, there's, and is that true?
Is that true in Holland and elsewhere in Europe too, where you might
see it all, you know, cartoons all over the, the, the newspaper?
Jos Collignon: No, no, no.
It's not, not that.
No, it's not that cover.
Not everywhere in the paper.
It's, it's usually confined to the oped page.
Okay.
But I, I, I did three a week and my colleague did also three a week.
So we did it together and, uh, we had our own voice and, and, uh, and um,
uh, well, Most of the papers, most, most of the national papers anyway in
the Netherlands have this situation.
And most of them are very careful with their, with their cartoonists and, and,
uh, and they are really appreciated.
And also by the readers because they, they tell us we are part
of the face of our papers.
That's what they literally tell us.
So they want, don't want to lose us.
And, and our, and well, maybe we draw a bit along the lines of the paper.
I, I think it is.
That's why we work there for so long, but they leave us.
And also if there's discussion about a cartoon, Who cares.
It's an opinion page.
It's an oped page.
So there is supposed to be discussion.
Joep Bertrams: Let me tell a little experience I had,
uh, in this respect.
Cause I was,
Daryl Cagle: Joep, while, while you tell us your experience, I'm gonna
bring back one of your cartoons that got skipped by accident.
And, uh, this is a wonderful cartoon.
Oh, really?
Would, would they put the, the price cap on, Putin's oil?
Um, and I guess this is kind of an optimistic cartoon thinking that
price cap would make more of a difference than it seems to have made.
But I just thought this cartoon was great Keep the lid firmly closed.
That's fun.
Uh, that's fine.
Yeah.
But I, so you were saying
Joep Bertrams: yes cause the experience, uh, because I was sacked.
some time ago by, Het Parool by the, the editor.
And, uh, they had to take, she had to take me back because the, the, the, the
reader responded, didn't want it this way, and they wanted me back in, in the paper.
But I left.
In the end, I, I left because that's no way of working together.
But I still, uh, worked there for a year and then I could,
uh, look for another job.
And I found from E Huna Amshalaga,
for instance,
, and also in, in
several times, it occurs that a cartoon is used on the front page when there's
a special, uh, issue or a special, uh, occasion, because there are no photos.
Uh, and then they can use, they did.
So it is possible to get on the front page,
Jos Collignon: but
Daryl,
It's hard at the moment for you and for American cartoonists because a lot of the
cartoonists, uh, are being sacked and have no possibilities anymore to go anywhere.
And that's because of the, the, uh, the, the, uh, different opinions in America
that's gone too wide out of each other.
Daryl Cagle: Well, we had, uh, the experience last year of the biggest.
American newspaper chain Gannett, uh, deciding to drop editorial cartoons
entirely in what was then about 400 papers out of about, uh, 1200, 1300
daily papers overall in America.
So it was a very large percentage of the papers and it hit our syndicate very hard.
A lot of, uh, great papers that have been subscribing to us for
20 years just suddenly stopped printing editorial cartoons entirely.
Oh.
Um, because Gannett wanted to get away from having the left versus right
stuff, the donkeys and the elephants.
Yeah.
They didn't want the friction between the left and the right, which is what
they said was the reason they did this.
Of course, yeah.
And they wanted the papers to have more of a local focus that didn't
lend itself to left and right.
And that's very frustrating.
Uh, some of the Gannett papers stayed with us, uh, Gannett papers
in California and Florida, which is wonderful, and we love those papers.
And, uh, they're very committed to editorial cartoons.
But, you know, the hundreds of Gannett papers left and that's,
uh, a great frustration for us.
And we're seeing that in other papers for more, for other reasons than Gannett.
Um, a lot of papers are consolidating and you find that, There'll be one paper
in a little regional group that is the editorial staff of maybe two people
for maybe six papers in this the area.
And those other six papers may have little or no staff, maybe one
reporter or two reporters, and the papers put together in another place.
Uh, that's very, very frustrating.
Uh, there are some papers that are like ghost papers that exist with no
employees, um, and they're entirely put together by another paper in the region.
Um,
Taylor Jones: wow.
I guess AI will be taken care of that before, before too.
Wrong.
You know, the ai, you know, imagine, I was thinking the other day if a, um,
Daryl Cagle: we had our second, AI cartoon.
Yes.
That was submitted to us by, Jos.
Uh, I could dig that up if you wanna see it.
Yeah, I'd love, let, let me get that.
Um, I, you know, I should say, I, I was thinking of, of doing a little
extra, you know, like on the Bill Maher show, they've got this extra
cuz they sit and talk some more.
And I think I'll do that with this one.
Well, we'll do something extra.
Jos Collignon: That would be nice.
Daryl Cagle: Okay, so, uh, here is Jos's, AI cartoon.
I think this is hilarious, and I have no idea what, what
you've written about in here.
Jos Collignon: Um, no, no.
I'll
tell, I'll
tell you.
Daryl Cagle: Well, let, well, let me say that this is Okay.
We, we had one AI cartoon that we syndicated, and I'd love
to syndicate this one too.
I, I think it's hilarious depending on what you wrote in it.
And, sometime there's gonna be somebody who can't draw, who isn't a cartoonist,
but who's a good writer and can get the AI to do stuff that goes with good writing.
And then we're gonna have a tough decision to make, which is, do we wanna do that?
Uh, until now, that has never happened.
Um, but, but it could,
Jos Collignon: yeah.
Well, well, up on the upper left side, you see in the, in the big letters it says,
uh, after Russia, uh, Now Iran two is chairman of the UN Human Rights Council.
That is what it says on the left.
And then on the right it says, uh, I asked midlife, uh, midlife mid journey.
I asked mid journey, um, generate for me a big red cat with a Russian
fur hat on, and next to it, a black cat, Iranian cat with a round with
round glasses and a white beard.
Furthermore, 10, frightened white mice all seated at a conference
table with a UN logo on the wall.
I thought that will be the cartoon.
So I, I, I gave the, the submission.
And I got this back.
So when I got this back, I looked at it and I thought, well, this
isn't exactly what I meant.
In fact, it's not at all what I meant as a, as a drawing, it wouldn't work.
So I put the conclusion under there with, uh, my, it, it's, it is some,
a portrait of myself and I concluded for the time being I'll do it myself.
Taylor Jones: That's, that's great.
That's great.
I think it's very funny.
You know, I'm, I'm curious.
Yeah.
Well now the cats, were they, I mean, in, in, in, I know that AI and these
art programs, they can, you know, uh, you can just, uh, call up whatever
things you want and you get these.
So were these, so these, were these different cats?
Were they sort of.
Generated or were they lifted, uh, by the AI program to come out like that?
Jos Collignon: I think they were, I, I think they were
lifted in a, a global search.
Mm-hmm.
And, and for cats it's easy because there are so many cats on the internet.
Yeah.
They were lifted in a global search, and the hats were put on by, by mid
journey, uh, by the, by the, the, the bot and, uh, the, the position also.
But in the end, it was not anything that I could use for
my cartoon and my time was up.
So I I, I had no time to, to make another cartoon.
So I put this one in the paper with the, the, the, with the, the self-portrait.
and uh,
Daryl Cagle: I think it's, I think it's funny and I should say, you know, I
talk a lot about cartoons we can't draw because editors don't want that stuff.
But, um, I don't talk that much about what editors really do want.
And one thing that they seem to want in practice, rather than what they
say, but what they in practice show that they want is cats and dogs.
You put cats and dogs in cartoons, the editors just love it, especially cats.
Um, I had an idea one time that, uh, you know, maybe one of these cartoonists
that's, uh, writing to us that wants to be syndicated, he's not quite good enough.
If he would draw just cats in all of his cartoons, he would
be our most popular cartoonist.
Every cartoon just depicts everyone as a cat.
Um, I have suggested that to a couple of guys that they, I don't wanna do that.
I, I thought it would be funny.
It's crazy to look at the statistics and see when it's cats,
it's,
Jos Collignon: yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the problem is a bit, we have become political cartoonists.
We want to say something with our cartoons and, and we want to stand, we
want to have a standpoint and have a lot of humor to express that standpoint.
I think that's what we are trying to do.
Daryl Cagle: Do you think that, do you think that a cartoonist could
decide to say all of the things he wants to say, but with the constraint
that he has to use cats to say it
Jos Collignon: Well, there are, there are.
Well, yeah, I could, I
Taylor Jones: could, Daryl, you want me to just drop her?
Yeah.
I
Jos Collignon: remember an Australian cartoonist.
Who used only animals.
Ah.
And, uh, and it, and he expressed the real situation that was, in his
opinion over there in Australia.
Well, and he was hugely popular.
It is about 50 years ago.
I don't know his name anymore, but I saw an album album by him
and it was very good quality.
Daryl Cagle: Well, you know, Taylor does all these wonderful
bird cartoons and, uh, yeah.
I was suggesting to him that if he just did bird cartoons,
like I was suggesting to
, Taylor Jones: I, I'm tempted Darryl.
Uh, you know, I'll tell you that, that cat in the middle there with
the Iranian cat, wherever that image came from on a t-shirt, that would
sell a ton of t-shirts, you know.
Yeah.
Just that one cat there, that stern looking imam cat.
Jos Collignon: Yeah.
But, but the other one where the orange, uh, firefighters
helmet or something on the right.
You know, and his looks are marvelous as well.
Yeah.
These
are,
it's a great, Taylor was fun
Daryl Cagle: to do.
Taylor, are you gonna go with the birds?
Taylor Jones: I'm gonna do more.
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I've got, I've got Bird.
I got a whole bunch of ideas.
It won't all be birds, you know, primates are pretty good too, but, uh,
I'll, I'll be doing more bird stuff.
That's great.
And,
Jos Collignon: and, and MacNelly had his, had his MacNelly had had his, his birds.
Taylor Jones: Well, of course Oliphant had his little penguin, but
Jos Collignon: Yeah.
Yeah.
But, but MacNelly had a, a daily strip.
Uh Oh, yes.
Yes.
Oh, yes.
Taylor Jones: Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Jos Collignon: Shoe it was called.
Yes, that's right.
That's right.
So maybe it's, uh, time for you, Taylor.
Maybe it's time to, uh, pick up something new and be the most important
cartoonist in the, in the United States.
Taylor Jones: Be, you know, to be, to be serious about it with that is
that, you know, I don't, I don't do, I don't do as much day-to-day political
things for Cagle, and especially since I, I'm not with El Nuevo Dia anymore.
Uh, that then, and the things I do for Hoover Digest, the
only problem is that, that.
That stuff has done way in advance.
Now, some of those illustrations, cartoons, yeah, they have a pretty long
shelf life, but there's others that I know that I, yeah, I can't do this now.
Or maybe something five years may say, oh, I can use this again.
Yeah.
But, but, uh, uh, the thing about it, I've done a b I've done a bunch of
nature cartoons for Daryl, mostly sending centering on birds, but not all of them.
But doing it on birds allows me to kind of do it anytime, any anywhere,
you know, and, and, uh, where I don't have to be, because what I find myself
is, I'm, I'm, I'm not as quick on the draw anymore when it comes to a lot
of day-to-day political commentary.
And, and, and because the news cycle is so fast and continuous that this
stuff becomes all hat, you know?
So, And, uh, so yeah, I think I should do this, Daryl.
Good.
Joep Bertrams: Oh, very good.
It's, I'm looking forward to it done over the years, Donald,
that make mouse the whole bunch, all, all animals.
Taylor Jones: Well, I'm only 35 miles in Disney World,
Daryl Cagle: so there's, I I don't know any editorial cartoonist who's ever,
ever done it entirely with animals or particular well characters like that.
Well,
Jos Collignon: there are so many, so many topics that last forever.
I mean, what the actuality, what happens is one, but there are also things between
left and right or or about religion or Oh no, you don't want religion, I'm sorry.
But about a lot of things that last forever.
Daryl Cagle: Well, you know, American cartoonists, have this trope of the
old couple watching the tv, and they, they can comment on anything in the news
and you don't really have to draw it.
Yeah, draw, because it's on TV and you know, they're commenting on it.
And, I do a lot of those, which you know, a little too by shame,
uh, because they're so easy.
And I actually draw it with the back of the TV cuz then I don't
have to draw what's on the TV.
And that makes it even lazier.
Um, but you know, all of those, it's right, all of those could
be birds talking to each other.
They don't have to have the tv.
They just talk about the, they could, they could be birds watching tv
Taylor Jones: in case it's since, since, uh, you also in Europe.
Haven't seen any of these.
These are pretty realistic.
I mean, they're meant to be funny, but, but you know, I, I, uh, uh, I'm long
time interested in, in, in, you know, all kinds of things in nature and, and,
uh, so I enjoy, I enjoy, uh, drawing them well and, and, uh, I don't, I have a
better feel for birds for whatever reason.
You know, I, I, I spend a lot of time, I've got this extensive butterfly
garden, but insects are hard to draw, uh, for me, um, I don't really,
I'm not very mechanically inclined.
And my feeling is that someone who can draw, if you can draw like a racing
motorcycle really well, I mean really, really well, you can draw insects well,
I have trouble with a lot of machinery and that makes insects, uh, uh, but
birds just something I, I don't know.
I, I, I have a more, a better feel for them birds and primates
than, than a lot of other animals.
Jos Collignon: Yeah, there are a lot of English guys who draw birds fantastically.
Yeah.
And, and very fast.
And, and, uh, yeah, I admire that because that's not my style either.
thank you
Daryl for everything,
Daryl Cagle: gentlemen.
It was very nice having you and we'll, we'll have an extra episode of us just
chatting and that will be charming.
Well, that'd be good
Taylor Jones: be, I certainly enjoyed it.
And again, thank you for inviting, including me, and,
uh, great to meet you Jos.
Daryl Cagle: And thank you everybody for joining us.
For our, everybody our extra chat after our Putin part two, podcast.
And, remember to subscribe to the CagleCast wherever you go.
Uh, subscribe, subscribe and, thank you for being here.
And uh, we will see you next time.
See you later, gentlemen.
Bye-bye.
See you later.